will my ex reach out

Will Your Ex Trick You Into Breaking No Contact? YES!

Craig (00:00):

Today we're going to be talking about, will your ex trick you into breaking no contact? So this is something that everybody thinks about. I can imagine. Right? You know, if you've made the decision that you're not going to reach out to your ex, there's going to be little things that they do here and there that make you question. Is this them trying to get me to reach out? Is this them trying to get me to break the ice? Is this thing that they're sharing on social media about me and many times, it is. We're going to talk about some of those because it's good to know that yes, your ex is thinking about you and yes, your ex will do things on social media that could be about you and there'll be vague and indirect.

Craig (01:36):

Sometimes there'll be a little bit more direct. We're going to talk about some of those after this email coaching that I had here, but I want to talk about this. Okay? Because I tell you guys this all the time, exes often do regret their decision. At some point, they miss you. They think about things they have time to reflect. And what you have to understand from their perspective is that they are anxious about you at times. Now they're not going to show that, they hide that. Okay. because they had the, the power of making the decision to end it, they don't feel as much anxiety. They don't feel as powerless as you do, but they do get anxious about the situation.

Margaret (02:20):

They've lost you. No matter how you look at it, they can't forget about you in two minutes. Yeah.

Craig (02:24):

And, and what happens is, is that they're also anxious about reaching out to you, right? And that's why I figured out many years ago about the indirect direct approach. Right? A brilliant concept. Yes. It took me a while to figure it out, but I kept seeing patterns. Right? Where somebody, what is the indirect direct approach? Well, the indirect direct approach is that somebody reaches out to you directly, but they don't say something like they miss you. Okay. And you know, I know that some people don't believe that the indirect direct approach is a real thing. Oh, it is. It absolutely is. Yeah. See. And what do you think about that, Margaret? What would you say to somebody that doesn't think that's a real concept?

Margaret (03:15):

Well, I think you have to be aware that there's an unconscious, an unconscious mind. And if you're not aware of that, then I can see why you might not believe it. And I mean, I even think people could post stuff or, or do provocative stuff that they're only half aware they did, but part of them is hoping it will provoke you to contact them.

Craig (03:35):

Exactly. And we're going to talk about those

Margaret (03:37):

In a little bit indirect, direct I was talking with somebody today who told me clearly she did an indirect direct. So I mean, she knew exactly what she was doing, but I'm not sure that everybody does. Your favorite was always, I called to see how your cat is doing.

Craig (03:52):

The cat, I missed the cat and I didn't make up "I missed the cat out of nowhere." I missed the cat, I kept seeing I missed the cat, so that's one of the things that helped me put it together. I kept seeing it over and over again. It's not about the cat. It's not about the cat. It's about missing you. And they don't have the courage to tell you that they miss you. Right. Okay. So they, they dip the toe in the water. They dip the toe in, because they're not going to say, I miss you because then they're going to, you could lash out. You could ignore them. And then they're scared. So they dip the toe in, by directly contacting you. That's the direct part. Right. They reached out with a message they've reached out. They've called you, they've texted, you, they've done some kind of direct contact with you. That has to be a direct part. Right.

Margaret (04:47):

One of the ones that I've heard lately is I got some mail for you here.

Craig (04:51):

And, and here's the tricky thing about that with mail. It could be like, maybe they really do want to give me the mail. This seems like a logical thing. That's why the indirect direct is so confusing.

Margaret (05:02):

Yes. Because yes, it's kind of meant to be confusing.

Craig (05:05):

I remember a girl a couple of years ago, it was an avoidant. And she was one of the most I guess self-aware avoidants that I had ever dealt with. And that's why she stands out to me so much is that she told me she contacted the ex about the car key, needing the car key. And then she said, it wasn't about the car key. It was because I missed him. And so we talked about it and I was really thrilled with that call because it was great hearing an avoidant, being able to put the pieces of the puzzle together. Yeah. That was great. Yeah. So that's an indirect, direct is like, could this be about that thing or is it not? And it can be tricky. Right. But the point is, is that, you know, your ex often does do things to get you, to reach out to them because, and here's why, okay. Regardless of what your ex says to you, they still want you to want them, okay. They still want you as an option, even if they don't want to be with you in that moment in time, they liked the idea of you wanting them, because that feels good. It feels good. But biologically, because humans are hardwired to connect, to stay safe, that allows them to feel safer. Right, right. Because that's one more thing, biologically, one more person that could keep them safe. Does that make sense?

Margaret (06:40):

Absolutely. When a saber tooth tiger comes along, you gotta warn each other and take care of each other.

Craig (06:46):

Right. Like, you know, a turtle has a shell or a bird can fly away. Humans have their relationships. So they don't want to give up that relationship. Right. Even, you know, even if they don't want that person, they want the option of you being there. Right. So, because they want you there on some level, sometimes they're gonna struggle with how much they want you in their life. Right. So they might do these little breadcrumbs, these little things to keep you guessing. Keep you wondering breadcrumbs is the right term. Yeah. Because on an unconscious level, they're also scared. They're scared. They have that feeling of impending doom and dying too on some level.

Margaret (07:28):

It's a loss, even if they did the breaking up. Exactly.

Craig (07:31):

So they want to keep you around on some level, at least they want you to be wanting them, not necessarily around like contacting them, but they would like the idea of knowing that you still want to be with them. So you don't want them to think that you don't want them think that you're sitting around waiting for them to come back. Right. So I find that exes willl do little things to try and, you know, spark you from, you know, contacting them or reaching out or something. Okay. And I got an email coaching that I thought may have had a couple of those things in here. So that's why I wanted to share it. Now, this was the second email coaching and I gotta be honest. I was frustrated because my first email coaching, I had really laid out a nice plan. And he made a big blunder after the first plan. And it seemed like because he had stuck to the plan, he was getting a little traction, getting a couple of these things that I'm talking about. And then he makes a big mistake. And you're going to hear about that. Okay. So he said hi coach Craig. I appreciate our previous correspondence. I need to clarify and add context. Firstly, this is about, like I said, a follow-up to his first email coaching. She started to hang out with the new guy long after move. I knew he liked her. And I think she was very emotionally upset by the breakup. Every time we went off again, she reached out to me, not the other way around. I always recognized that it was important to leave her alone after the breakup. So good started to do that. I know she has a more anxious attachment style is an insecure. And I think he provided that romantic validation that she felt for these other reasons I could no longer provide. Okay. And there could be truth to that. She could have been insecure and just started dating somebody new to fill that void, right. Or to make her feel relaxed or calm down and, and you know, deal with the breakup and not necessarily a healthy way.

Margaret (09:41):

Right, right. But many people do it.

Craig (09:44):

I have been keeping up with the attachment videos and other topics. Individuation has been my primary goal. Good. I've moved into my own place. Something my ex had long wanted for us both. But I had shot down that for financial reasons. And it turned out because of my attachment style and he got a new job. I'll say that it's a new career. Good, good for him. So here's, here's where we get tricky. Right. She has almost reached out to me in the past month. She started typing on Snapchat to me at one point around when her new boyfriend posted their relationship status. Now he screenshot of this and there was an indeed a picture where it said her name and it said typing. And so he screenshot it to prove on Snapchat that she started to see what I mean. There's almost something and I don't use Snapchat, but I'm familiar with it, I created an account many years ago, but I'm familiar a little bit with it. So now in the notifications it would show him and she probably knows this, that, Oh, he'll see that I was typing to her. Yep. So that would be a little provocative. Right. I agree with that. Then he goes on to say, she even liked one of my Instagram posts the day before that. Okay. So that's something else she's going to his profiles. He's liking something. That's a good sign. And she views my stories, usually all platforms and within an hour of posting another good sign right now, I would not tell you to reach out for any of those things. Right. But that's showing, she's looking at his stuff. She's keeping up to what he's doing.

Margaret (11:36):

Okay. So she hasn't totally lost interest by any means. All right. So there's a little bit more.

Craig (11:40):

There was even a weird situation where she was online on the game. We used to play together and I went offline to avoid temptation of inviting her. I don't know if it was a PlayStation or a computer game, whatever he didn't say, but I guess she popped up online and then, Oh, and he also said, and she got off without playing a match. So maybe she saw him online and then disconnected from logging on whatever it was. Okay. There's a little bit more, she also has created private stories on Snapchat that she obviously invited me to. I haven't watched this one is smaller, but she has a habit of deleting photos of past relationships. She hasn't done that or even changed the captions that refer to me as the best guy ever. He now we starting to look a little bit too deep right now.

Craig (12:36):

We starting to get to that point where that it's going to make them crazy. Right. Looking at these kinds of details. Even after we broke up last time, she and I kept talking about how much we loved each other and hope to work it out one day, she was even saying things like how she knew is in bold caps, things were going to get better and work out and how I was the person that made her the happiest, all good signs. Right. Nice to hear. And here's the blunder and this is a pretty big one. Okay. Then I went and tagged myself and all our old vacation photos on Facebook and weirded her out. Oh boy. Okay. Margaret, what do you think about this? Wow.

Margaret (13:26):

I think it's a pretty angry thing to do. I think he's really angry at her, which is understandable, but there's no way that was going to get her to come back to him. What was she thinking do you think?

Craig (13:39):

I, to me, it feels like he was trying to like claim territory, like a dog peeing on a fire hydrant. Right? Like this is my territory.

Margaret (13:49):

You forgot that. I own you. So I'm going to tag, like that. Yeah.

Craig (13:54):

Okay. And it's like a public display of like, look, look at me like to the other guy, like if he looks at her Facebook now he's like looking at all these pictures with his name and it just, yeah.

Margaret (14:07):

I have better peakcocktail feathers then. Yeah.

Craig (14:12):

Oh my gosh. But I, I, the minute I told this one to the new coach, cause she was here, when we discussed this one, she was just like, Oh no, because you know, it just comes across as like..,

Margaret (14:27):

Angry to me because it's going to cause her a lot of hassle, a lot of problems. It's embarrassing to her because both their names are right there. If he thought in any way that was going to get her back he wasn't thinking logically.

Craig (14:45):

No. And that's one of the struggles of being in a breakup. We, we come up with these ideas and plans and they're often backfire. If you haven't heard me suggest in a video, I wouldn't do it. Yeah. Okay. Right. If you haven't heard Margaret suggest doing it, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it. Okay. And if you're on the fence, do a coaching with us.

Margaret (15:04):

It was a hostile act. That's what I'm trying to say.

Craig (15:11):

So obviously she freaked out and let's see what happens. We didn't talk until a week later when she told me that she loved me, but, and here we go was no longer in love with me. Okay. He came on way too strong.

Margaret (15:28):

Oh, he, he did something dreadful to push her away and then wondered why she went. Yeah.

Craig (15:35):

She cried. I didn't she'd posted or she noted in past breakups like this and she didn't get how I could be so common understanding while she sobbed. But it sounds like she cares about this guy.

Margaret (15:48):

It also sounds like they've broken up several times. Yeah. They're young, right? Yeah.

Craig (15:54):

They're in their early twenties. But I, I really liked the fact of the things that an ex would do. And I think she was doing those things until the tagging of the Facebook. Right, right. Yeah. All right. He said, I never could answer her, but my reaction has always been to remain calm and to talk her through it. I did again, a few days later she sent me the birthday text. I had attached to the email. It was just happy birthday with the little blowing of that, whatever that little kazoo thing is. And I responded politely and thanked her. Am I too hopeful or reading too much into things. Is a situation as hopeless as it feels sometimes. Okay. So we're going to talk about things you might want to look for, but I want to talk about, you know, yes. He is obviously reading into a lot of things here. Any clue he's obsessing over, it it's normal.

Margaret (16:51):

But then after he got a bunch of clues, he did this thing to push her away. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe he doesn't see it that way, but I'd love to know his reasoning if he thought that was going to get her back. Yep.

Craig (17:02):

Yeah. well at this point, you know, I think he had a few signs here that maybe she was thinking about him and who knows where it was going to go, but it was too early to say, and then he did this big thing, which felt like a little thing, but it was kind of like, I don't know what he was thinking. I don't think I've seen anybody do that one before. But I mean she needs time. I mean, I wouldn't say it's hopeless. I'd say that she needs time because it's, you know, it's not a horrible, horrible thing, but in the midst of a breakup, it's kinda like, it's tacky, it's uncomfortable. And you know, I think it's got, like, I told them in the first email coaching whatever's going on with this other guy, that's going to have to fall apart first.

Craig (17:45):

But you know, exes often do on social media. Now, they're not probably thinking along the lines of, I want him to break no contact. It's more like an unconscious thing of, I miss him. I'm not going to say it. I miss her. I want it. But then, you know, so they do these little tiny behaviors. Right. And these are some of the ones that I've seen on social media, particularly good. A song, maybe a band that used to like a song that used to like together, a concert that you had been together. That's, that's a big sign I think. Right. It's it meant for you probably, yeah. A meme, especially if it's like related to something that you like, if it's an interest that you have a movie, a show, something like that, or some maybe kind of related to an inside joke you've had. Yeah. That's likely directed your way. Some kind of memory, sometimes an ex will share one of their memories that you were in it or, and repost it or something like that. That's obviously more direct. Here's another big one. This is a big one that you see, actually, if they reach out to a friend or family, like one of your friends.

Margaret (19:02):

Absolutely. And that happens all the time. Yeah.

Craig (19:05):

And they'll say how's, so-and-so doing and part of that I think is did he say anything about me?

Margaret (19:12):

That's what all of it's about, right? Yeah. Did he say anything? Does he or she miss me? Yeah.

Craig (19:17):

So that's a good sign. This is one from the new coach Vicky. She suggested this one. I was hoping she would get to film in this one, but she didn't today. Unblocking you. You okay. If they unblocked you now, she said that would be the lowest of the low, but unblocking, you would be a good sign.

Margaret (19:36):

We had somebody say to me the other day, is that a good sign? Yes.

Craig (19:39):

And these are all kind of related, showing up at your work. Obviously they know you work there. That's a big thing.

Margaret (19:47):

That's also a big problem. Most people see that as very intrusive.

Craig (19:52):

Yeah. But if you're the one that was dumped, it's not, as you don't feel as intrusive. If you're there, if you're going to the person that dumped you work that's way worse. Right? Yeah. So if they show up at your work or places that you hang out or places that they know, you'll be, those are all good signs that maybe that you'll reach out or contact them. However, I do not recommend you do it. Nope. If they ended the relationship, I recommend that you let them reach out to you. Behavior escalates to serve a function. Right. I learned this many, many years ago as a behavior analyst. And so if it's escalating, as it was here, I think these little scenarios, right. It would have continued to escalate if he didn't, he had left things alone. Now who knows where it would have gone. It doesn't mean necessarily they would have gotten back together or anything. That's a huge leap in logic. I'm just saying, I think she would have reached out. Now she did reach out about the birthday, but now it's got to take some time and he's got to wait.

Margaret (21:04):

See, but just in terms of his life, I want to congratulate him. He got a new job and he moved out. So he's really gaining on the life tasks that he has right now. And that's great. That is great.

Craig (21:17):

Absolutely. and that's what we want you to do. That's our focus all the time is to help you grow from your breakup, grow emotionally, heal your attachment issues and become the best version of yourself. And that way either you retract your ex and blow them away, or you are doing much better in the dating world and you're much more attractive emotionally and as a partner, you're bringing a lot more to the table, but you know, again, I want to reiterate Margaret that a lot of times the ex who did the dumping is unconsciously thinking about you. Of course. And doesn't have the...

Margaret (22:04):

I don't know, the awareness, the wherewithal, the knowledge

Craig (22:07):

Exactly. To reach out or, or they're just not quite motivated enough to do it, but you need to let them, because they need to sit with that decision and really realize that they can lose you as well. Right. It's so important that people realize that they're going to lose you when they end a relationship that you're not going to continue to beg or, or, you know, be there just sitting around, putting your life on hold. Yep.

Margaret (22:35):

You told me to get lost. So I got lost.

Craig (22:39):

But that's why we're always focused on the personal growth because no matter what happens, you put yourself in a winning situation.

Margaret (22:46):

But it also sounds to me like this particular pair had both had a difficult time. It didn't seem like either household was friendly or supportive. And it sounds like they may have been clinging to each other. And they're probably really attached to each other, even though all of the tasks of the twenties have gotten to them now. And it's hard to do,

Craig (23:06):

But he's doing a great job. As you said,

Margaret (23:09):

Yes, he's doing what his life tasks are, which are to separate from your family to move up. And he got a new job.

Craig (23:15):

He's going to look a lot more attractive to her when she does come back around again. I, I really suspect, you know, if she has several months and it falls apart with the new guy that she could reach out again, you know, three or four months that that's the vibe I get from this situation. But you know, who knows what's gonna happen in the future.

Margaret (23:34):

Three or four months, it can be five or six months, but yeah, I think they were very important to each other.

Craig (23:41):

Yeah. But just know that, you know, your ex may try and provoke you with little things to reach out to them. But I think, and I stand by this, you should let them reach out first and say made the decision to end the relationship.

Margaret (23:58):

You're right. I do. Okay. Thank you.

Craig (24:01):

All right. So hopefully you found this video helpful.

Margaret (24:04):

Can I make a comment? I just want to make another comment on direct indirect. Now I refer to commercials sometimes because I know everybody who watches TV sees them, but there's a wonderful one. It's a progressive ad with flow and Bigfoot. Okay. And they're having a rather pleasant chat and big of course has been spotted a couple of times. And he says to flow, maybe part of me wanted to be seen. Yes. There is an unconscious and bigfoot knows it.

Craig (24:35):

And now you do too.

Out of Sight, Out of Mind During NO CONTACT? Will Your Ex Forget About You?

Today we're going to be talking about, out of sight out of mind. Well, I think that is a huge misconception. I just want to start with that but I think many people that, you know, even maybe advice that you see online, you'll hear things like out of sight, out of mind, there's one particular dating coach that I find extremely unhelpful. I won't name names, but their approach is very aggressive and in your face and almost gets you terrified that if you're not in your ex's face, they're going to stop thinking about you. They're going to move on. And I think it comes across as very toxic and hostile almost it's so aggressive or avoidant. I mean, it would scare you to death and you'd back off faster. Yeah. But this idea of out of sight out of mind is something that I think is a major misconception about human beings, right?

Craig (01:50):

When it comes to attachment, when we form a bond and emotional connection with somebody, we on some level, keep that bond forever. It goes on in our unconscious forever. It may not be as intense or the desire may not be there to be with that person, but you don't forget people that you truly bonded with. Right. Right. You want to hear about my Adam theory? Yes. I've read not all that long ago. And I don't claim to be an expert on this, but not long ago, someone who was writing about attachment, it's an article. I was reading talked about how Adam's work and if two atoms are attached to each other, at any point, they always, always are attracted to each other again and have something in common and have some connection. Okay. And the person was trying to say, so it is with human beings that once you've really had a connection with someone, it doesn't go away.

Craig (02:53):

No, it doesn't go away. And the reason that we're talking about this is that, you know, talk a lot about when somebody ends a relationship, not contacting them and respecting their decision and that we both understand that is absolutely terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. It might be one of the scariest things that you have to do or feel like you have to do in your life. And I understand that because I've been in that place, I've been in that situation where I had to do that and not knowing if it's the right decision is, you know, it's really scary. If I stop reaching out, they're going to forget me. They're going to forget all about me if I'm not reaching out, out of sight, out of mind.

Craig (03:42):

Margaret, do you have any idea where this concept may have even come from?

Margaret (03:47):

I think there's another early process. Of course, that has to do with that. And that is that again, if we are nurtured and cared for enough as little ones, eventually we learn to hold on to kind of a snapshot of mom so that when we're left alone or in our crib or our bed or whatever. And we don't see her and she's not near us. We can call up what her face looks like or remember what her voice sounds like. Yeah. Okay. So there is a way we can kind of take people with us. Yeah. And even though we're often not aware of it, most of us adults calm ourselves down somehow by getting back in touch with that, now we don't have time to do that in a split second, nor are we terribly aware of it. But if you've not had the experience of being able to do that, I'm sure you would believe everywhere in your heart that this person's just going to forget.

Craig (04:46):

It probably came from somebody that has an anxious attachment style and they were thinking, and that was their ultimate fear out of sight, out of mind. And for some reason it became a mainstream thought or process maybe amongst the anxious people.

Margaret (05:05):

Right. And it certainly was not a big idea with anybody who was into the unconscious because not much is out of mind.

Craig (05:14):

But you know, it's important to understand that when we form this bond, it's not just the, the thought of, "I love this person". It's a real connection that hits us on deep levels. And that just doesn't, you never kind of stop caring about them. I care about people that I dated many years ago and you know, it doesn't mean that I would date them again, but I certainly wouldn't forget them. I could call up their voice. Right. And if, if you're really struggling to call up their voice, I had somebody tell me this week, they couldn't call up their ex's voice, right. Then you probably had a massive trauma with your caregivers.

Margaret (05:59):

Sometimes it's helpful to look at a picture in order to be able to grieve because grieving is difficult If you can't call up the person's picture and or voice. That's interesting. Yeah. Sometimes it's helpful to look at a picture, even though it will make you sad, it may help you grieve. And I realized that after working with families who were too crazy to have people have time to internalize the picture of mom and so forth and so on. And I realized that they couldn't grieve. And finally it occurred to me to ask them to bring in the family album and that would do it. They would get to see the pictures of the lost people and so forth. And sometimes that would help them be able to grieve.

Craig (06:42):

And that makes me think of clients that I've worked with even many years ago, locally, that kids that I worked with had never met their father, never even seen a picture of their father and their behavior was just outrageous. They couldn't calm themselves down. They were extremely, I remember one kid was so hyperactive. Right. He had never seen his father never even seen a picture. Right. So how could he grieve that? Yeah.

Margaret (07:11):

And I've heard many people say, well, out of sight, out of my father, isn't involved. And I would say, no, you're supposed to have two parents watch TV for five minutes. You find that out. This is a huge issue always. Right. And if mom is willing to give up the information, sometimes she is sometimes she isn't, it's a huge help for this kid to know as much as he can know, because he has degrees.

Craig (07:32):

Yeah. So out of sight, out of mind is it's very helpful to know that when you're in no contact, you're leaving your ex alone. You're allowing them to sit with the decision. You're allowing them to start to wonder if it's the right idea. They're not going to forget about you. On their end, they're going to think about you. It depends upon what particularly happened in your relationship. Why it ended the circumstances, all of that is going to affect that. But at the end of the day, they are going to think about you.

Margaret (08:09):

Yes they are. And you hear people often say too, "well, did they ever love me? Maybe they never loved me. And they just kind of strung me along." No, they wouldn't have stayed around as long as they did. Okay. So they did have some genuine feeling for you and know they're not going to forget you, even if they want to.

Craig (08:26):

Yeah. And one of the things that is so difficult about being in no contact is you're constantly obsessing about if they're thinking about you, have they moved on, will you, will you ever hear from them again? And every minute feels like an eternity. Right?

Margaret (08:48):

And I think that's a great observation because anytime we're talking about anything that relates to unconscious material, it's important to remember that the unconscious doesn't do time. Everything is forever and everything is blissful. And so, it can slow down and seem like forever and time can get all this story and you're not going crazy. That's just kinda how it works.

Craig (09:13):

So it's awful because let's say you're sending there for 10 minutes by yourself. You might have a hundred thoughts about where are they at? What are they doing? Where are they looking at their social media, looking at their Facebook, obsessing about the last argument, obsessing about the last things they said to you, wondering if they're ever going to reach out wondering if they still care about you. And it just feels like that 10 minute period feels like an entire day. Yeah, sure. And I can remember literally sitting in my room after the Applebee's breakup in particular on the bed and just not being able to stop thinking about it. Just, I couldn't think about anything else. I, I couldn't even be distracted by a video game or TV or anything. I just was staring at old messages or, you know, obsessing about, will they contact me today? It's been three days and it just feels like an endless, you're trapped in this endless time and moment of uncertainty and fear and just being fearful.

Margaret (10:28):

Terrified. Yes. Being separated always is scary. Yeah.

Craig (10:32):

Yeah. But it's just, this moment feels endless. If that makes sense.

Margaret (10:36):

It does. You were talking about endless moments when we talk about the unconscious, this feeling must be forever too. The bliss thing didn't work out, but this abandonment thinks seems forever.

Craig (10:46):

Yeah. And the other thing that you probably think, and I know I was thinking, this is that, you know, "was our relationship meaningless to them". Right. And you start to obsess about it. Did they ever even care about me? How could they do this to me? I don't understand how could they want this connection, this dynamic that we had to go away, you know, especially if you're in a relationship where you're getting along so well and you know, you thought it was relatively healthy relationship, you know, then it's just like, you're, you can't even find faults. You're not, you know what I mean? You're just like, I don't even usually get angry at them. You know,

Margaret (11:28):

It feels like a physical wound, almost

Craig (11:31):

Pain is physical. It can be literally physical. It physically hurts for me. And, as I worked on understanding breakups more and more and how it relates to our attachment. I understand that the anxiety that I was feeling after my breakup was very similar, the anxiety I had as a kid. And I didn't understand that, that, you know, because my mom and dad were split up when I was about a year and a half old, and my dad left my mom to be with another woman. My mom had a lot of anxiety or so I can imagine. And so she was very stressed out about the bills and not being able to afford the house. And She was afraid that my dad would take me away. She would catastrophize.

Margaret (12:24):

The woman has to be a nervous wreck. So you picked that up, babies, pick it up,

Craig (12:29):

I absorbed all that anxiety. And then, you know, having to physically leave to be at my dad's house around a stepmother that I didn't like. And I got those, you know, we talked about me having the intuition that she wasn't good. And I think, you know, she probably has several diagnoses

Craig (12:55):

But when I had to go over there, I would cry all the time. I would cry on the weekends. I would cry being away from my mom,

Margaret (13:02):

I was going to say, you probably worried about your anxious mother, kids worry about parents. Sure.

Craig (13:08):

And I, you know, having to go there on the summer, I would go to camp and, you know, looking at it now, it was a really nice camp. They had go carts and swimming and all kinds of fun arts and crafts. And it was probably a wonderful camp, but I would literally be sick every morning. They would want us to go swimming. First thing in the morning, I would have earaches. I wouldn't, I would be crying at camp. I would, I would want to go home.

Margaret (13:36):

I also think the water would be cold first thing.

Craig (13:40):

And so it was so traumatic for me being away from my mom. And so I experienced a lot of the same symptoms, you know, as an adult, going through my breakup

Margaret (13:54):

And thank you for sharing that, Craig, that's generous of you. And that's exactly what happens that if we have early separations, the separation and adulthood calls, all that stuff.

Craig (14:04):

Yeah. So I think, you know, people that are more secure and had a healthier childhood and connection with their parents, the breakups aren't as painful to them 

Margaret (14:17):

Still painful, but not as, yeah,

Craig (14:19):

They are painful, but I'm just saying they probably don't experience it the same way because I, you know, like with trauma that it stays in the body. Right. You want to talk a little bit, you know, there's a book called the trauma the body keeps score.

Margaret (14:35):

The Body Keeps the Score. We'll do a whole thing on that one day, but the body, the body absorbs trauma. Yes, absolutely. So your body was anxious and it was no wonder you had earaches.

Craig (14:47):

Yeah. Probably very reflective of how I felt when was little being away from home and away from mom, is how I felt in the break actually. And I didn't understand that. I mean, how could I have known that? So many of you, if you, as you take a deeper look at your issues in your childhood, you may realize, Oh, I was sent to my grandma's house for two years or I was shipped off to another country

Margaret (15:15):

Right. And then you have to remind yourself, I don't have to go there now. I'm a, I'm a grown up and yes, I have all those feelings, but I don't have to go to another country. I don't have to go to my grandma's. I can stay right here. I'm a grownup now. And it's important to do that, to reorient yourself to the present. Yeah,

Craig (15:32):

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But I think it was for me, that timeless feeling of feeling devastated and separated and scared is what was coming out of my unconscious when I was in no contact and not reaching out to my ex.

Margaret (15:49):

Never have we said no contact was easy. No.

Craig (15:53):

We understand why the out of sight out of mind is so scary that your unconscious is like, "they're never going to come back. They're going to forget about me." Right. And that's just not the case.

Margaret (16:08):

Well, that makes me think of the movie home alone, which was a big hit and lots of people watched it and it probably speaks to a primal fear that the family will forget me and leave me behind. And they did. I watched it, the poor kid got left behind it's everybody's worst fear.

Craig (16:28):

Now the other thing is that what's so difficult is that usually the last interactions with an ex are, "I don't care about you. I don't want to talk to you anymore. This is over, I'm never going to give you another chance" because they're trying to separate from you and, and put that wall up. So they don't think you're going to keep manipulating them or trying to harass them or change their mind. Right. And so because those interactions, they they're. So even cruel at times, it's exasperating, the you're going to forget about me. Oh my gosh. If I don't do it,

Margaret (17:08):

She said, she's never gonna think about me again. That she's done with me. She's through with me. She's never given me another chance. So why should I think she'll ever think about me again? Yeah.

Craig (17:17):

But what happens is, as you leave them alone and they have some space to, you know, think about things, realize that the issue is may have not been as bad as they were feeling at the time or unhappy about certain things. Those issues aren't as intense for them, that all plays out in their unconscious, Margaret. And you wanted to talk about now they have the same,

Margaret (17:42):

They have the same unconscious responses that you do. So even if you did the breaking up, okay, you might feel at first, then you might feel a little better for a little while, but eventually it will catch up to you. And you're going to grieve this loss also. And you're going to wonder if you made the right decision and people say, well, if there are no contact, but I heard from that ubiquitously third party, you know, the third party that shows up everywhere and says, I saw so and so out at a bar. And they looked very happy with 12 new guys. Okay. You're always going to hear that one, but is your ex partner liable to go off and live happily ever after with the next person they meet,

Craig (18:21):

Not likely. It's very, very unlikely.

Margaret (18:24):

It may take them awhile to get around, to grieving the relationship with you, but they will. Okay. Yeah.

Craig (18:31):

And you know, we have this fear that they are going to see our ex as this amazing person, the way that we see them, but that often doesn't happen. And, you know, even like with the Applebee's situation with that girl, she thought she was going to date this new guy. And what did he do? He broke up with her to be with the girl that he really wanted to be with. Beaky buzzer wound up marrying that girl. Yeah, he was on a rebound is where he was. So, and what happened is the girl that he had longed for, for, for years saw that he got into a relationship with my ex. So that's when she finally wanted him because he became unavailable. And then the minute he had the opportunity, he dropped my ex and she told me that she admitted it. She came clean and said, you deserve to know this. So his rebound work in a way. Yeah. Yeah. but she told me that karma got me and you deserve to know,

Margaret (19:42):

Oh yeah, that was good of her.

Craig (19:46):

But you know, one thing that you said to me earlier is that even for them, the, the dumper that they're on some level insulted that the relationship

Margaret (20:03):

Are always insulted when our initial fantasy that this will be perfect and blissful doesn't work out. Absolutely never is a human being happy with the end of a relationship. Even if you, for whatever reason, think you need to end it. Yeah. You grieve too. You're shocked. And you grief too. Yeah.

Craig (20:23):

So have comfort in knowing that you are not going to be out of their mind, even if they, even, if they just said, I'm not going to think about him. I don't want him back. Even if they consciously did that, you're still gonna come up in their unconscious

Margaret (20:39):

And there's still going to be that favorite song you enjoyed that night

Craig (20:43):

Or the movies that you loved, or that hobby that you liked, you know, I'm sure they always saw that thing that you, no matter where they're going to go, you're going to come up. Right. You're going to come up in their unconscious it's it's inescapable. I'm sure that anytime any of my exes see like, like a star Wars movie coming out, they all know they're thinking of me. I know it. There's just no way they're escaping that. No, they can't just get it. And isn't that nice. Yeah. There are certain things they won't be able to escape. Like if I see a new Scooby doo movie come out, one of my other exes will come up or something. You know what I mean? Other things from other exes of when I see things that they enjoyed it come, they come up in my unconscious and that's okay.

Margaret (21:28):

And, and, you know, a good thing is if you can remember that you enjoyed the relationship for at least as long as it lasted and every time a loss comes up, you work through it a little further. Yeah.

Craig (21:38):

The point is, is that out of sight out of mind? No. No, we disagree. And that's why we go on and on about the unconscious, because we want you to understand why that is. Absolutely. So hopefully you found this video helpful.